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 You Stupid bot! 

Good idea?
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 You Stupid bot! 
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:17 am
Posts: 277
Location: Norway, Pakistan, U.K
Post Pointless
Nelsona wrote:
And for completing this subject, after another tests:

STUPID BOT = STUPID AND RETARD MAPPER. End of story.

STUPID BOT = No knowledge about A.I., no respect for EPIC's work.

STUPID BOT = Where did you see that ? Which map made by a retard ?

STUPID BOT = Make yourself a savant one if you have balls and brain.

STUPID BOT = In my first meet with Liandri Invasion and Arden Valley bots were my guide, a long time ago.

STUPID BOT = Did you ever remoded a map with bot support ?

STUPID BOT = They can look like a stupid even in usual CTF maps because of bad mapping, make correct triggers for them and will see the results.

Some concluzions about bots. They hunting any other team player as a first priority, and all pawns considered anoying in their way to destination as a second priority. MonsterHunt is based on that second priority and their victims can be any pawn. If a monster is too far from them and is not considered dangerous they will ignore it. If a monster become agressive they will give an adequate reply. Also if you put a player BOT from another team in their face, and also a monster, they will open fire against player and then will hunt down the monster. That's because Epic didn't programmed Monster Hunt, is not possible to make a boss monster an Assault Target for them, you must use some tricks if you want them to do that. Their style in Monster Hunt is DeathMatch style not Assault. Monster Hunt is:

Name=MonsterHunt.MonsterHunt,Class=Class,MetaClass=Botpack.TournamentGameInfo

class MonsterHunt expands TeamGamePlus
config(MonsterHunt);

class MonsterWaypoint expands Keypoint; //not an Assault TARGET
...
MonsterHunt(Level.Game).LastPoint = Position;
bVisited = True; //They visit this point and then bye, mission completed
bEnabled = False;

And first learn more about that and then will see who is guilty for bots behavior.
They hunting in MH maps only if map had paths (blue paths), and is not a priority for them small places, red paths are used only if they are in danger, also some red paths are wrong given by editor.

Nobody cares about editing bots, they're useless. Much better with players only, otherwise Bots will do work for you.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:51 pm
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 298
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
I think you cannot read because I explained already too much about this subject. I posted already many informations. Want to see a map remoded by me with skilled bots how is running ? A really hard map without being supported by nobody will make anybody to give up and VOTE. I studied also humans not only bots, and I didn't told something about editing bots, I gave informations about how to add bot support. If those informations posted by me are unusefull for you then you don't need to read. I want to exchange experience with anyone interested about this subject not for blame bots because of bad mapping.


Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:17 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:25 pm
Posts: 150
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
Nelsona, I think you may have partially misunderstood what I was saying in this (well over a year old) thread. As you said, yes there is trouble with bots targetting monsters and server crashes, etc. I posted this here as this sections heading is This is for discussions of the new version of Monster Hunt in the works. As in, I was simply pointing out that it would be a good idea to, if a future version of MH was released, include an add-in to change bots attitude to monsters that are set as Friendly AI (which would be possible as the gametype already alters their AI to target all pawns, a check similar to that which already exists within other monsters AI should be all that is needed) Also, by "You stupid bot" I wasn't meaning any disrespect to epic, etc. And yes, I have remade several maps for my own personal use with Bot Support, as for a long period of time I had no internet connection except for on another computer that I did not have constant access to, and did not play online At all, because that computer pinged 2500, which made downloading server packages absurd, so yes, I do know about A.I. Pathing, although my map I released did not have it simply on the grounds the BSP was too unstable for me to look at to place nodes on. Other than this, I try to make pathing in my Monsterhunt maps always, as I map for Unreal also and know the tricks one can pull off with adequate AI pathing, such as Queendests, alarmpoints, etc. There is honestly no need for such an agressive and angry reply, throwing anger and insults around as if someone had directly attacked you, which they did not. And by Stupid bot, I meant that the bots were doing stupid things, not to dis Epic or Shrimp's work in any way shape or form. I have also learned a fair amount more about mapping since this (as I said, year old) thread was published. I can honestly see that you're a very experienced Unreal Engine mapper, but your personality is a bit strong and gets in the way of what could potentially be good and constructive criticism.

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armymen wrote:
can some people make a warhammer 40k story using ut weapons cause i know im no good at making levels or nuttin like that

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Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:42 am
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 298
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
Some late for reply but I was some busy. Zacman, you did some good things, but I mentioned these agressive replies because of a crap posted, reply for Section 8, the man I think cannot handle A.I. at all, that's why he wrote that bolshit about "the worse A.I.".

A.I. is basically instructed by gametype. If in gametype missing some definitions A.I. can look as being very retarded. Good functions about assault a target can be found in ASSAULT. There I observed that they will never StakeOut. Functions treating each A.I. move and also if is not possible to do that then go to other state. For this reason they look more smart in Assault than MH. MH include some basic instructions for them, I mean 1 st is to visit or find a path to MonsterWaypoint, if not exist try to find MonsterEnd. And here missing other condition: What if the path is unreacheable ? They will not LOG anything just run in place like retards, would be much better to wander or cover the human lieder. I studied some codes from assault, here I'm overwhelmed. FortStandard is defined and is set to be a target. If they cannot see it, then will find a path to it, if no path then freelance, and so on. Is some well pointed each move, if yes .... else .... else ....else. Also if is not direct reacheable as a trigger, they will use "RangedAttack", never stackout like is happening in MH. MH can be anyway better if a skilled coder want to fix it, I mean not ruin all curent maps, just need some improvements for their behavior against monsters.

When I decided to make my own mutator (NsRoMH), I already made some tests and I was dissapointed about their attempt to use retarded chainsaw against big monsters. I remoded a function meant for stop monster vs monster fight including bots in "party". I sugested to a bot when see a monster, then means is enemytarget and go to "RangedAttack" not "Attacking". By giving to everybody SniperRifle (players and bots) they seemed to be a little smart, they used chainsaw as an alternate option, but not so many as usually. I don't know if I did the right thing, maybe I will check again. I observed logs but is a little hard for me to understand their "empty slots" in MH. I need to know why they StakeOut, and I want to know how to make them stop this crap by giving an alternate option. Target Aquisition ? Seek other target ? Well, I need more study for learning these. I'm still digging for some tutorials with their basic behavior, causes, options, etc.

Ideea for a RangedAttack was because not always they can find the way to target. How about a Gasbag, Warlord, or any monster which flys ? This sugestion I observed in an Assault code when the target is not reacheable walking on ground.

Now, question. Section 8 - What A.I. mapping did you made when you told your big bolshit about A.I. What gamemod did you programmed ? If you did one I beg you to send me some codes for study. If you are only a gamer, I suggest to stop posting bolshits because is useless.

My mutator is available in my server webpage at port 8000 described in server's title, downloads section included some versions, latest is version 3a. If any of you consider as being good for your local play or a gameserver you can use it. I can add source-code if you are interested about it. In my mutator I'm not hunted design, I just wanted a better A.I., and some cures for some madness from maps and players behavior. Example: If a player will try to turn back a lift, wasting time with this action, will have a little surprise (I suggest to call a medic skilled in lego game :) ), I also suggest to avoid making jokes in front of a door with monsters behind it, because monsters will open that door if is triggered for touching, they also can use lifts to hunt you in maps A.I. pathed. Other fixations I don't think is really needed to be posted here. You are free to try it.

I'm still making checks. Will attempt to fix other problems if I meet and if I can.


Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:29 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:25 pm
Posts: 150
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
It was a map I used ages ago (Which I canned and no longer worked on, since, as I said, this thread is over a year old) The issue was that I used followers from Operation: Na Pali (Which later turned out to have inherent incompatibilites with MH regarding other things so I didn't use them) The issue was, despite that the monsters are friendly to the player, the Bots exterminate them anyway.

<<EDIT>> In regards to saying no respect for Epics work, epic DOES have some COMPLETELY Retarded code, E.G:

(In Krall)
Code:
function PreBeginPlay()
{
   bCanSpeak = true;
   voicePitch = 0.25 + 0.5 * FRand();
   if ( CombatStyle == Default.CombatStyle)
      CombatStyle = CombatStyle + 0.4 * FRand() - 0.2;
   bCanDuck = (FRand() < 0.5);
   Super.PreBeginPlay();
   if ( bDicePlayer )
      PeripheralVision = 1.0;
   if ( Skill == 0 )
      ProjectileSpeed *= 0.85;
   else if ( Skill > 2 )
   {
      bCanStrafe = true;
      ProjectileSpeed *= 1.1;
   }
[b]   if ( !IsA('KrallElite') )
      bLeadTarget = false[/b];
}

(This means that, unless it's a KrallElite, a Krall can NEVER EVER DODGE EVER no matter WHAT you do to it's settings, unless you run a super.postbeginplay in a custom subclass)

(In SkaarjWarrior)
Code:
: function PostBeginPlay()
{
   Super.PostBeginPlay();
   if ( skill == 3 )
   {
      SpinDamage = 20;
      ClawDamage = 17;
   }
}

This means if their AI Combat skill is set to 3, even if, for example, it had 50 Claw Damage, it would be reset to 17 NO MATTER WHAT, unless you did same as the above Krall

I do have respect for Epic ^^ Sorry for it being Misunderstood that way
Stupid Bots=Epic are human, they make mistakes :cool:

_________________
armymen wrote:
can some people make a warhammer 40k story using ut weapons cause i know im no good at making levels or nuttin like that

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:05 pm
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 298
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
Bump or not ?
Ok, let's see, you always want to make MH to be like Sp. Imposible, because MonsterHunt is programed for hunt ScriptedPawns and all subclasses except some freaky SkaarjSnipers being players and unarmed because of some functions from common mutators.

I sugest you to check source code of MH, I already recompiled a local version for me, you know, FindSpecialAttractionFor(Bot aBot) is a mess. I rewrited it and results are definetely better and better. Btw, I saw Kralls strafing, no problem, my problem is they are retreating like cowards sometimes. I altered this crap.
Internal function SetAttractionStateFor() is doing always his job, but other functions are sensitive before it. Let me show you some results:

Original MH:
foreach AllActors( class'ScriptedPawn', S )
{
if ( S.CanSee(aBot) )
{
if ( ((S.Enemy == None) || ((S.Enemy.IsA('PlayerPawn')) && (FRand() >= 0.5))) && (S.Health >= 1) )
{
S.Hated = aBot;
S.Enemy = aBot;
aBot.Enemy = S;
S.GotoState('Attacking');
If (FRand() >= 0.35)
{
aBot.GotoState('Attacking');
return false;
}
}
}
else
if (aBot.CanSee(S) && (FRand() >= 0.35) && (S.Health >= 1))
{
aBot.Enemy = S;
aBot.GotoState('Attacking');
S.Enemy = aBot;
S.GotoState('Attacking');
return false;
}
}


My personal code changed in my local version:

.................
if (aBot != None)
{
aBot.SightRadius = 7000; //Would be much better to see
aBot.PeripheralVision = -1; //more than an old grandma
aBot.HearingThreshold = 0.8; //
}
......................

for (P=Level.PawnList; P!=None; P=P.NextPawn)
{
S = ScriptedPawn(P);

if (S.CanSee(aBot))
{
if ( ((S.Enemy == None) || ((S.Enemy.IsA('PlayerPawn')) && (FRand() >= 0.2))) && (S.Health >= 1) )
{
S.SetEnemy(aBot);
S.Hated = aBot;
S.OldEnemy = aBot;
aBot.Enemy = S;
aBot.OldEnemy = S;
S.GotoState('Attacking');
If (FRand() >= 0.2)
{
aBot.GotoState('Attacking');
return false;
}
}
}
else
if (aBot.CanSee(S) && (FRand() >= 0.2) && (S.Health >= 1))
{
aBot.SetEnemy(S);
aBot.bReadyToAttack = True;
aBot.GotoState('RangedAttack'); //Yep retarded chainsaw is a mess.
if ((aBot.Enemy.IsA('ScriptedPawn') || aBot.OldEnemy.IsA('ScriptedPawn')) && aBot.IsInState ('Retreating') && (FRand() >= 0.2))
{
aBot.GoToState('Attacking');
}
S.Enemy = aBot;
S.GotoState('Attacking');
return false;
}
}

These codes are a few sequences from my recompiled version, I can tell you is better than crap original. I also developed other function for make them to kill monsters not passing near them for MonsterWaypoint, and then run forward.
But that function is overwhelming me (ruins timer) is very agressive, but return better results.

How is working A.I. ? My observations:
- A.I. is basically guided by engine - a hard load to engine will make them retards;
- Pawn with ScriptedPawn subclass is instructed also in other manner by their code;
- Not the last, the game mod make them to take decisions, check codes from Assault, CTF, or any usual mod, they are very instructed by game;
- And final point, The MAP - yes, bad mapping results always in retarded behavior of any pawn.

I will not release any of other MonsterHunt version because will mismatch everybody and I don't want headaches. But, for my personal fun I have a version and a few maps (included some common maps).

Of course I'm still testing some modifications of monsters (they need more brain, not only speed or size), results, better (much better).

BTW check better this: you writed:

else if ( Skill > 2 )
{
bCanStrafe = true;
ProjectileSpeed *= 1.1;
}

See ? You wrong my friend. They strafing if they have skill more than 2 not retarded skill 1. But mistakes I'm very agree are many in ScriptedPawns codes.

I'm gonna improve my local MH. Then what ? I will play again only local, I guess finally I will stop my server because I cannot alter their default attraction without ruining timer or other functions. Now I can tell: Bots were not intended for MH, hehe, were not intended for any game. The game is guiding A.I. not themselves.

I also have other dumb ideea but I cannot complete it myself, I need some help.
A mutator or actor to make the bot to be teleported behind you when is more than 1200 points range between you and him. Why ? Majority of maps have no A.I. paths. Your follower cannot reach at you if you are too far and will take a time in big maps even A.I. pathed. This one will be better for servers with bots, you gonna have bot support anyway. No other paths nedeed.

Also I can put a function in MH to make a bot to say: This map is retarded, I'm blind. Or: This map has no end, I suggest you to change it.

I will try to make this actor or mutator alone. Seems to be a little hard and Who will be interested about it to help me ?


Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:06 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:25 pm
Posts: 150
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
Yeah, Krall can strafe, but they can't dodge unless they're KrallElite (As in, they won't recognise a projectile coming straight at them and jump aside, any projectiles that miss a normal Krall are always just bad aim ;)) This was a system that was implimented (Although in a horrible way) to fix problems in the old Unreal Beta. If you've ever played the Unreal Beta, first thing you will notice is ALL the monsters have INSANE dodging abilities. They can dodge anything, even hitscans. (I can't find it ATM but I'll dig up a link to the old Beta, the converted version by Zora, and you'll see what I mean. Even if you suprise them from behind they still dodge) Both those code pieces were copy and pased directly from the Krall and Skaar code. Krall STRAFING works fine, it's just DODGING (Strafing=Running side to side, Dodging=Jumping to try not to be shot)

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armymen wrote:
can some people make a warhammer 40k story using ut weapons cause i know im no good at making levels or nuttin like that

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Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:39 am
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 298
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
I'm glad to see that still a few men are interested about A.I.

Other observation:
I put in a map more monster types. I made a little noise firing against them to piss them off. After that I retreated, map containing paths. Guess which monsters hunted me (or attempted) following pathnodes?

Kralls ! :) Skaarjs seems to have problems with non-uniform terrain. Also Brutes are very lazy and Titans. Of course 2 gasbags were around me but not so efficient like terrain monsters.

Now, is a little big problem in MH, that's it. They need brain and a lot of other fixations which are totally missing. They fight much better with an additional intelligence, is not bad if you can make them more sensitive, I mean a better sight and that PeripheralVision parameter is pissing me of because I don't understand it well, but seems to be involved in their sensitivity.
I have another problem trouble to resolve with a few classes: Fear !
If I start a mad fire with rockets or other powerful weapon they shiting in pants. They retreating, damn ! I need to study more about that FRand() parameter. I want agressivity not fear. I guess, in my next mutator version I will add a timed function to check agressivity each 3 seconds. I'm not sure if is the best option because even Berserkers are retreating when I use minigun.
In a word, THEY ARE COWARDS.


Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:03 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Magic Land
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
The reason why some mappers stopped pathing MH maps was because the monsters can follow you where you go after theyve seen you. This effect came out to be a pretty annoying situation for the reason that they ended up going all the way to the player spawning spot and spawn killing players like crazy, specially when there were so many monsters attacking or with way too strong projectiles being spammed at players. There was a huge discussion about this at the BU forums back in around 2005 and the proof was obvious on every server.

Now, making open paths in maps too well with strong monsters and preventing them from fighting each other causes frustration on players because they can no longer use the actual strategy players loved when the mod was out which was like playing the oldskool mod in a different way. As you can see, most MH maps are not made for bots but for players to try something new and different to gain a new experience/skill with it. Besides, the real challenge is to play new maps and be able to beat/end it all by yourself in order to really enjoy it. If you go off adding bots to it, then whats the point???... that's just senseless.


Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:43 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:25 pm
Posts: 150
Post Re: You Stupid bot!
Nelsona, if you want to get past the Fear issue, just run a check through a mutator for each Scriptedpawn,
(Pseudocode)

If AttitudeToPlayer= Attitude_FEAR
Attitude=Attitude_Hate or Attitude_Berserk
Aggressiveness=1

OR, mappers should set up stuff like the HomeBase, when a monsters attitude is FEAR it will check if it has a HomeBase, run back to that, choose an AmbushPoint with the same tag, and wait to ambush the player there. This was designed for Unreal 1, where if a player was too tough, monsters would retreat and then try catch the player by surprise (The Mercenary and krall segments of the game had this a lot)

Just remember, make sure the hate stuff doesn't go through the nali, because it might cause strangeness (Since Nali don't fight)

Also, War, Kickers can easily boot monsters back, or SpawnProtection in the form of Zones with Y/X Gravity. Also @War, the reason I wanted to add such things was to stage kinds of "Epic Battles", a mass of Player-side monsters and players against a mass of Skaarj forces, a REAL battle, not the Uber-godlike-guys-who-can-somehow-stand-one-versus-fiftythousand-battles kind of fights that we usually see.

_________________
armymen wrote:
can some people make a warhammer 40k story using ut weapons cause i know im no good at making levels or nuttin like that

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:21 am
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