Thoughts on MH bots?

General Monster Hunt talk

Are bots dumb or not?

 
Total votes: 0

Jukki14
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by Jukki14 »

They are pretty dumb on custom maps, but in the ones included with the mod they play fine

comoestas
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:22 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by comoestas »

The bots dont do anything right, better to play 1 against all

Nelsona
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by Nelsona »

:) I'm back again. If anyone is interested about some tricks for bots. Exemple: A boss monster in a room or an area must to be killed. Is very strong (many HP), you need some help. Some MonsterWaypoints are required for bots to reach at final boss room. Ok, shit happening again, if they touch the MonsterWaypoint (the last one) and if they are killed, will respawn in start location and never turn back to fight. The trick is to stop them touching the last MonsterWaypoint, and they will come back to fight until game over. How is possible ? I find a strange way to fix the problem. Do not laugh :). I put the last MonsterWaypoint in a corner with 10 collision radius, rebuild AI paths then I added a kicker almost into the MonsterWaypoint with a 120 collision radius and 100 collision height for exemple. The kicker constantly dropped away any bot who tried to touch that MonsterWaypoint, they fighted until killed the boss and game over. I checked that in a local practice sesion as spectator, nobody gived them any order, they just begins hunting. Sometimes I like to put camera on a bot and type behindview 0 at TAB. I have a few remoded maps by me with complete bot mapping support. They can finish thoose missions with no problem even playing without any human player. Of course if you have a crap mutator you can ruin their mind in any map with correct bot support (ex: MHC mutator put them constantly in wandering state, they camped almost all game, I will never use that mutator).
Also I had some troubles at lifts. Skaarjs knows very well how to use a lift but bots my be confused if the lifts are incorrect triggered. They are affraid of falling and can be heavy to make a good lift trigger for them, but finally I fixed the problem.

jaypeezy
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:13 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by jaypeezy »

They could be much worse. At least they can fight with the monsters/monsters fight back.

chuaher
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by chuaher »

they stand right next to you while you do all the work.

Nelsona
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by Nelsona »

chuaher, I bet that you didn't see one of my maps how it works with bots. I asure you that I can relax watching them finishing map. If you don't know AI better stop writing bolshits.

SuperDXFan619
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:19 am

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by SuperDXFan619 »

My bots are terrible. They suicide, leave areas of maps untouched (so I have to go one by one killing the monsters myself, because they can't even follow an order like ''Attack'', or ''Cover Me''), and most importantly, they try to kill me!

Nelsona
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by Nelsona »

I can show you mapping mistakes if you tell me more about what map is about.
I don't tell that I'm master in bot mapping but after a little check in editor I can explain their behavior.

If your map is a MH map then you need some tricks for them.

Let me explain some little details:
- MonsterWaypoint must be placed in a place where you want them to fight, also paths in that area must be shown as blue lines. If a monster boss is there and you want them to kill him, you can put a teleporter invisible before MonsterWaypoint to make them return back to zone entry and make them meet him again. They will try to touch that MonsterWaypoint until the monster will be killed. Monster's death can trigger a dispatcher. This dispatcher can make an anouncement about boss (The ... is resting in peace) and after 1 second it can disable that teleporter. Bots will visit their target and then will go to the next MonsterWaypoint (position x+1), the same crap can be used again, many times. I asure you that if you put MonsterWaypoints almost in pathnodes and paths are shown in blue they will insist to visit them.
- If a path is broken to a MonsterWaypoint then you can see them running in a place until will digg a hole, after the last visit, if they cannot find a valid path to the next MWp - MonsterWaypoint.
- After last MWp touched they have no other job to do and will enter in freelance. In freelance state they are interested to colect ammo and weapons, also shieldbelt is a little priority. Some shieldbelts can awake their interest in visiting some zones.
- The most important problem is to keep last MWp untouched for them in last area. You can put some kickers before it to blow them back, if the boss in area is still alive they will attempt to remove any potential problem in their action.

MonsterHunt has no trigger for bots to hunt countered monsters or is still unknown for me, also no suport for make a boss a 1st priority target. He is a hybrid between assault and deathmatchplus. In a deathmatch are unusefull defensepoints, nothing to defense, only hunting enemy team (not 1st priority other pawns, but they kill pawns dangerous).

If you want I can help you with bot mapping.
My pleasure is to make AI to hunt with brutality.

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waffles
Posts: 277
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:17 am
Location: Norway, Pakistan, U.K

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Post by waffles »

Nelsona wrote:I can show you mapping mistakes if you tell me more about what map is about.
I don't tell that I'm master in bot mapping but after a little check in editor I can explain their behavior.

If your map is a MH map then you need some tricks for them.

Let me explain some little details:
- MonsterWaypoint must be placed in a place where you want them to fight, also paths in that area must be shown as blue lines. If a monster boss is there and you want them to kill him, you can put a teleporter invisible before MonsterWaypoint to make them return back to zone entry and make them meet him again. They will try to touch that MonsterWaypoint until the monster will be killed. Monster's death can trigger a dispatcher. This dispatcher can make an anouncement about boss (The ... is resting in peace) and after 1 second it can disable that teleporter. Bots will visit their target and then will go to the next MonsterWaypoint (position x+1), the same crap can be used again, many times. I asure you that if you put MonsterWaypoints almost in pathnodes and paths are shown in blue they will insist to visit them.
- If a path is broken to a MonsterWaypoint then you can see them running in a place until will digg a hole, after the last visit, if they cannot find a valid path to the next MWp - MonsterWaypoint.
- After last MWp touched they have no other job to do and will enter in freelance. In freelance state they are interested to colect ammo and weapons, also shieldbelt is a little priority. Some shieldbelts can awake their interest in visiting some zones.
- The most important problem is to keep last MWp untouched for them in last area. You can put some kickers before it to blow them back, if the boss in area is still alive they will attempt to remove any potential problem in their action.

MonsterHunt has no trigger for bots to hunt countered monsters or is still unknown for me, also no suport for make a boss a 1st priority target. He is a hybrid between assault and deathmatchplus. In a deathmatch are unusefull defensepoints, nothing to defense, only hunting enemy team (not 1st priority other pawns, but they kill pawns dangerous).

If you want I can help you with bot mapping.
My pleasure is to make AI to hunt with brutality.
A Summary please xD
Image Image

Nelsona
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: Thoughts on MH bots?

Post by Nelsona »

I tried to explain my strategy in MH bot support. If you think I writed too many words then I will stop showing my tricks for bot support.
I only tried to find another person who knows other tricks for exchange some experience. If you are not interested about that, is not a problem. I posting my work for interested mappers.

Their Strategy in MH is based on a TDM and they will not waste their life anoying. Some pathes given in an usual assault map where they attacking, those paths in MH can be considered dangerous and will block them (they don't want to be under a potential ambush, will not pass through small places or some strange jumps). Why they use chainsaw ? Let's think 10 seconds. How many health has TDM as default ? How many seconds are required to cut player's neck with chainsaw ? They are trained for that, I don't know if they compute chances for a chainsaw if a SkaarjLord boss must be killed. Maybe they cannot see his life as you can see in your HUD with mutators. They don't have a strategy against a huge monster because Shrimp didn't schooled them in this MH case. So, who is guilty for their strategy ? Why do you blame them ?

Assault game is conducting to another strategy: We must do our objectives even with life price. Let's attack. Someone try to stop us ? We're gonna kill him. A developing of Assault game in MH would be much better.

But now we have Monster Hunt, heavy to bot mapping (my heavy part is to make them come out of water), majority players say that is a TeamGame for players not for bots. Why ? Because mappers cannot handle A.I., that's why.

I meet a person asking me about how to launch a Local MH with bots of course. I helped him and gave him a list with good maps to play in Local Games, and I showed him how to launch a local MH game.

I was helped and Will help people too.

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