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 Post subject: MH-Estadio
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 7
Am almost done with my 1st MH map and could use some help on testing it and geting some critics/sugestions on whats missing or whats not so good.

If u can help, tks in advance.

http://www.domipneus.com/estadio/mh_hunt_test.zip


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 Post subject: Re: MH-Estadio
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Magic Land
ok, so I tried out your map and noticed the use of packages and their file size. When I downloaded the zip containing the files I saw that it was 15MB big. Once those files were installed I realized how big in size each file were and the map using them was only 2.7MB in size.

The zip file had the following files in it:

Estadio.utx unpacked size = 7.51MB
MH_Estadio.utx unpacked size = 2.21MB
MH-Estadio_tested01.unr unpacked size = 2.71MB
Ribeira1.utx unpacked size = 4.77MB
Ribeira3.utx unpacked size = 3.08MB
Walk.umx unpacked size = 6.84MB --- awful song that's not even used in the map and I hope it isn't.

And, my point on this is that we're downloading 27.12MB (without the song is 20.28MB) for a map that only has 158 monsters which we only get to make 493 frags average. The map has a lot of empty spots and we just wonder around with nothing to shoot at in most of the it when we should be running away from being killed, now imagine how long it will last with several players. You should also take in consideration that the Titans at the end have too much health which makes it boring to have to spamm the weapons at and just get a very few frags with MH's default score system which most servers still use. What I would really like to see in a map like this is a longer gameplay time where monsters can be all over the place and every corner if possible, and seeing them spawn for a little while. And I'm taking all this in account because we're having to download so many files with such huge file size for such a little bit gameplay time.


Looking at the texture files Estadio.utx and MH_Estadio.utx, these should be merged into one and only use the textures that are used by the map only. I noticed that some textures in those packages look familiar, I'm not sure if they are textures from the game's default texture packages or if they come from a popular texture package that have been used in several maps already but I know I've seen them in many maps all over. If they are from default texture packages they should be removed to reduce file size, and if they come from an existing custom package, you should use those packages instead so we wont have to download the same thing again.


Some things I would like to see in a next version are...
--More monsters well placed all over the map and spawning to have us run for our lives, makes it more interesting and playable.
--1 or 2 ammos for each weapon only, because having too many placed too close to each other makes poly count too high and kills framerate.
--Inventory like Health pick-ups, ammo, armor, shield, amp, redeemer, etc, all over the map because not every server runs regening mods.
--A more realistic SkyBox, because that one makes the map look like is floating in the middle of nowhere with a super fast bunch of weird looking clouds passing by lol.
--Keep the map use the UT inventory only so it is compatible with replacement mods.
--No useless large amount of packages and/or big on size packages for such a small map gameplay.
--A single texture package with only the textures used in the map itself

Well, the map structure, design, lightning and creativity isn't bad at all and it sure is something different that would be well enjoyed. What people really expect when playing MH is a map that is worth the download in the least amount of hdd space if possible.

Now, this is just my point of view of the map and my opinion about it and I hope you don't find it offensive because it isn't. So, keep up the good work and keep them coming.


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 Post subject: Re: MH-Estadio
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 7
This is the exacly kind of reply i wanted. I dont see it as offensive at all but rather a reply with lots of stuff i need to fix. And tks for the time writing such a big text. I have to read it a few times coz english is not my “friend”.

About the textures, when am maping i always use the same textures pack (6 or 7) that i use for almost all my maps (http://www.unrealplayground.com/forums/ ... php?u=1994))

You might see them familiar coz those textures packs (Ribeira1, 2 and 3, Estadio, etc) are used in my maps but also in a few maps (mostly big sniper maps) made by other mapers. I built those textures files a long time ago (2002 i guess) and beeing using it since

When i saw the MH-Estadio was complete i started to make a MH-Estadio.utx since i was just using 3 or 4 textures for Ribeira 1 and Ribeira 3 for exemple. But i cant find a few textures. Ive tryed everthing (texture cull, make new wall with texture missing and replace with new one, etc) and i just cant fix it. You know how UnrealEditor can be a pain in the ass sometimes. Hopefully, with time i will fix this. Coz you are right, it makes no sense to download a texture file with 5 or 10 megas and then the map just uses 3 or 4 files from it. Am not a noob to make such a elementar mistake like this but truth is I did it on MH-Estadio.

I uploaded the map and made this topic coz in 2002 it would be a big problem to force people to download big files. I think that today, with the conections speed we now have it wouldnt be a problem but well, i see your point and i will try to fix this.

About the song, i have no ideia why it is there. I dont use music in UT when am playing and i dont pay much atention to music when i make my maps. I messed up somewhere with all the copy/paste in 4 or 5 diferent maps to make MH-Estadio. That will be easy to fix.

About the “More monsters” issue well i have a problem. I know the map has just a few but i think there is some kind of limit in every monster type? Coz at a certain point Editor wont let me duplicate some of them. I dont know why.

Also i had a few monster factory that I made after reading an tutorial in this site but sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt worked and i deleted them all.

As you saw, the map has 4 diferent áreas:
- Area A, where u enter a few corridors and u get into the triger to open Area B
- Area B, where u get some more corridors and u get into the triger to open Area C
- The big area inside the stadium with the seats and the titans
- The starting map, outside the stadium where u start and u return when u touch the trigers.

All these areas were made in 4 diferent maps and then copy/pasted into one final map called MH-Estadio. The AreaB.Unr map had all those monsters u see and it also had 2 monsters factory. They worked fine. Right on the 1st corner there was a Pupae Monster Factory that spawned 50 pupaes with 15 interval. It worked fine, like the tutorial explained, when i played the map in the game. Once i copy/past the all map into MH-Estadio it never worked again. And i still cant find why. Instead, as u saw i just added 20 pupaes in the ground with all the framerate issues the it might cause.

Now if i “have” to add more monsters and with the issue i mentioned above, woulnt it be a problem? I mean, does a map has to have a lot of monsters to be a good map? Whats the exacly number of monsters you think this map has to have to be cool? And where would you put them?

To much ammo will be fixed. I see a lot of maps with ammo like this and beeing new into this MH stuf i just made mine the same i see other maps. But i will fix it fast.

Inventory like Health pick-ups will be added course. That part and finishing the lights is my 1st thing to do in this map.

A more realistic SkyBox. Well, in the MH maps i see there are not many nice skyboxes. Either the maps are indoors or the outdoors map i see dont have the skybox that i think it would fit in MH-Estadio. So i just added the usualy skybox i used to make to my sniper maps. But I will try something diferent in the next test version.

“--Keep the map use the UT inventory only so it is compatible with replacement mods.”
Am completly lost in here. Can u please explain beter what this means?

About the titans health, i copy them from a MH map called Cross Bridge or something like that. And i havent changed any proprieties. But i will if necessery. You see, I have the idea for MH-Estadio when i was playing that map. You have a big bridge, 6 titans in the midle of it, 4 war lord and u can shoot them from the ground or in 2 litle rooms way up in the walls. Thats one of my favorite maps in MH mod and when i was playing it i imagined those 6 titans in the midle of a soccer field and we shooting them in the seats way up in a big soccer stadium. The idea seemed simple but once u get into Editor, the fun starts and when u know it, u have a huge map, with more then 1500 brushes and crashing every 5 minutes.

What am trying to say is that i know about those huge empty places outside the map. My problem is that all that area is one big zone that can not be cuted into smaller zones where it would be easy to make more stuff. I can make parking spots, with cars, more buildings and places to go before entering the stadium, but then the framerate would be impossível.

Lets see if i can see another 2 or 3 guys testing the map, and then i will fix all and see what comes up.

Once again, tks for the reply and for testing the map. Anything else you find, please share.


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 Post subject: Re: MH-Estadio
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:14 pm
Posts: 298
Do not think to our Internet as being powerfull for download files. Think about a player in a big hurry who won't wait until a download is finished, he want to play not to download. Think about backups. How many space is consumed by a bunch of files.
As War_Master said, a music file can be useless sometimes. I know more than a player who turn off music volume and listen to Winamp a favourite song not music from a map.

_______
Back to other subject - A few "guys" patrolling right near exits warned with a event: "Carefull, here are some guards patrolling" would be better (remember our discution with Zacman). And a bit later: "OMG they called backups!"
Of course is your decision if you want only monsters waiting to be killed, no problem, was just a small sugestion. Starting level with Warlord maybe is not a very good ideea. But, is your work, is your decision what will be this map.

Do not load so much ammo in one place, is useless. You can put respawntime of ammo 2 seconds and is more than OK, and also you can randomly drop some ammo arround map not all ammo in a single place. Even in default games is not meet such a stuff, all in one place. Then you can select all categories and put respawntime 2 or 3 seconds, even 5 and is pretty good for a server without mutators. And for avoid other troubles watch out to movers, every mover triggered once only will crush at encroach or ignore, not turn back ever because will break map if a player is boosted and is encroaching such a mover. Once closed say bye to next section. Avoid bUseTriggered variable because the single purpose for this is GRAB command, in MonsterHunt this is a cheap cheat to escape without fight. A mover can be used triggered by a Trigger without that variable to True.

If you want to see how is working a CreatureFactory open an old map and check how is triggered this job. Is not hard. Spawning some monsters arround is good in a MH map.

Anyway I like it. For me, some small issues are not a problem because common mistakes are fixed automatically by mod.

Now, about weaponry. If I understood well your question, answer is not so complicate. UnrealI package containing stuff for SinglePlayer, is not good at all for Network Play. MonsterHunt mod by default is replacing all Old inventory with his own except RazorJack (try it and will see it missing - is destroyed), and also UnrealI.QuadShot is a fake code, that's not a weapon. Will see only a green cube. How to do a good work - open MonsterHunt package and take a look at weaponry will see weapons with names OL.... (OLRazorJack, OLRifle, OLFlakCannon, etc.). These weapons are in fact what we see in maps, not UnrealI.xxxxxx. You want to have a quadshot ? Open olweapons package and use that, is a deducted weapon (nobody know what kind of weapon was meant to be), is working enough good. That's about what is doing MonsterHunt by default with OLD weapons without replication in network and without decals. In fact they works somehow but you need some skills to be able to fire with them in a server without replacements returning a bunch of accesed nones in client LOG. If you have some Skaarj, don't mess with default SkaarjOfficer. His weapon as being a RazorJack is removed by MonsterHunt ruining it. Give him some Olweapons and will be OK, avoid any UnrealI crap if we talk about OLD weapons, use MonsterHunt or olweapons. In fact, for monsters weapon holders will be better to use other packages than UnrealI by default.

Next problem, UT inventory, is the designed for Network play. Another mod can replace UT inventory with other weapons. If you don't have this inventory that mod won't work. Anyway don't crash your brain too much for other mods. MonsterHunt was not meant to be used combined, like some admins are currently doing, is just their risk. If your map is good in default MonsterHunt then you are good, you did a good work, don't worry about other mods.
Here is about a small coding experience, MonsterHunt each tick is checking weaponry from map declaring True each TournamentWeapon. Other mod is trying a replacement for that using tick again creating another engine stress. So, if we want a good work, let's leave this alone with mods and "cool craps". Depending on the coder, that mod can enter in some harmfull iterations with a crash risk. As result, don't bother with other packages.


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